You know that feeling when you know something needs to change, but the thought of actually making that move feels overwhelming? Maybe life is fine—comfortable, even—but deep down, you know you’re meant for something more.
The truth is, stepping into what’s next—whether it’s a career shift, a business pivot, or a personal reinvention—takes courage. And today, we’re talking all about how to embrace change with confidence, even when it feels uncertain.
I’m so excited to have my friend Julie Jakopic here with me. Julie is an expert in helping people break through fear and step boldly into the life they’re meant for. She’s guided countless entrepreneurs and leaders through big transitions, and she’s here to share the mindset shifts and strategies that make it possible.
How to connect with Julie:
- Business Website: https://ileadstrategies.com
- Personal Website: https://juliejakopic.com
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ILeadStrategies
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliejakopic
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ileadstrategies
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jjakopic
Links Mentioned:
- Tame Your Do To List Free Resource: https://ileadstrategies.com/tame-your-to-do-list/
- Book a Call: https://ileadstrategies.com/contact/
Watch The Live Call
Full Transcript
Misty Kortes (00:02.129)
All right, hello, hello and welcome. All right, so you know that feeling when you know that something needs to change, but the thought of actually making the move is completely overwhelming? That is what we’re gonna talk about today. Maybe life is fine, maybe comfortable even, but deep down inside, you know that you’re meant for something more and something needs to change.
And the truth is, is that stepping into what is next, whether it’s a career shift or a business pivot, or maybe even a personal reinvention, it actually takes courage. And today we’re gonna talk about how to embrace the change with confidence, even when it feels uncertain. So I am so excited to have my friend Julie Jakubic here with me. Julie is an expert in helping people
break through the fear and step boldly into the life that they’re actually meant for. And she’s guided countless business owners, entrepreneurs, and employees and leaders through these big transitions. And she’s here to share the mindset shifts that it takes and the strategies to make that possible. So Julie, welcome to the show.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (01:20.37)
Thanks, this was fun.
Misty Kortes (01:22.326)
I am so excited to have you here. This is a conversation. think a lot of people really struggle. Well, we know this. A lot of people struggle with change, right? And adapting and creating new things for themselves and stepping outside their comfort zone. So I’m gonna dive right in. Like, we’re gonna get right to the meat of this. How do we know that, like, when it’s actually time to make a change? Like when…
because things can feel comfortable and even safe for us, but deep down we really know something still needs to change even though we’re feeling that.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (02:01.468)
So the way I hear it often is I really want to do this after, or sort of the when then conversation, right? Like when my kids are grown, I will. When I’ve paid off this debt, I will. When I reach a certain age or retirement, like then I will. And I think I learned really early on in life that tomorrow’s never a promise. And so there is this…
thing for me of when is now. And it’s never gonna be comfortable.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (02:39.282)
So if you’re waiting for it to feel comfortable to do something new, I’m sorry.
Misty Kortes (02:43.788)
Yeah, I feel the same way. You well, you know, you know my little bit of my story that, you know, I lost my dad when I was just two years old. My mom was pregnant with my brother. And I don’t know, there’s something about losing someone so important in your life like that, that really puts life into perspective that you’re right, tomorrow is not promised. And I never understood why people always waited for some future event or thing.
to take action. Why, like, why do you think we do that?
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (03:16.744)
Well, you I was thinking about like you and I talked before we started and then I was thinking about how you described it coming into the into our conversation today. And there’s a word for it, inertia, and it’s a physical thing. Like it’s why it’s harder for your car to go from zero to one mile an hour than it is to go from 60 to 61 miles. It’s already it has to start moving. It’s true about, you know, it’s true about all the physical things. So it kind of makes sense that it’s
true for us too. Unlike the physical things, though, we get to override it. We can say, yeah, OK, scary. Next.
Misty Kortes (03:55.522)
Yeah, absolutely.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (03:57.72)
you know, I have a team who thinks I’m fearless and I know, no, no, not at all. you know, and in some of my corporate work, I pushed something to two levels below the leader of a billion and a half dollar company. And, you know, somebody, you know, like the person I worked for on it was like, would you’ve gone all the way? And I was like, yeah, I didn’t, it wasn’t.
Misty Kortes (04:25.144)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (04:26.886)
I really had started out saying I wasn’t going to go past anybody I knew, but would I have gone all the way? Yeah, I would have. And my team was like, weren’t you scared? I was like, I had done them. Yes, I was. I also realized that this company has never paid me a dime that I did not bring them.
that I was doing the right thing by the people I was trying to get answers for.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (04:52.868)
And so they might yell at me. I’ve been yelled at before, but they weren’t going to fire me because I’d take the money with. mean, the fear that they would have is that I’d take my clients with me, right? which technically I can’t, but that doesn’t hold up in court, right? Like, so yes, I was scared and I don’t like being yelled at and I certainly don’t want to make an enemy of my clients boss’s boss’s boss.
But the risk was actually much smaller than it seemed. And I think sometimes we decide, like, A, we have this like me thing.
Misty Kortes (05:27.894)
Yes. Yes.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (05:29.49)
from anyone that like me. I promise you, I even want the people who hate me to like me. I’ve not recovered from it, but I don’t let it stop me.
Misty Kortes (05:37.166)
Right. Yeah. I heard a saying like years ago, a long, long time ago, and it stuck with me. It’s if it’s important enough, you find a way. If not, you find an excuse. And I think that’s it when it comes to fear, because I’ve had many people say, you’re fearless. I I’m actually afraid of most things I do. I just do it anyways, because.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (06:01.668)
Mm-hmm, exactly.
Misty Kortes (06:03.67)
It’s important to me. If it’s important to me, I’ll figure it out. Like come hell or high water, I’m going to figure it out how to make it happen, you know?
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (06:12.464)
Yeah, and I was thinking about sort of your initial questions to me about, how do you know when and what if you’re not comfortable? Well, you know, if you’re really not uncomfortable at all, you’re probably not going to do it. And then you take it off your list until you mean it.
Misty Kortes (06:24.056)
Right.
Misty Kortes (06:28.492)
Yeah, that’s a big one right there because…
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (06:31.664)
Right? Like how many people have lose 20 pounds on their list of things to do every single year? They don’t lose a pound. They don’t try it. And then they just feel bad that they didn’t do it. If you’re not going to do it, stop having it your
Misty Kortes (06:43.966)
Absolutely, absolutely. Because you carry that burden with you. you’re verbally telling people that you’re gonna do things or you’re telling yourself that you’re gonna go and do things and that you’re gonna make things happen, and then you just know that you’re not going to do it, like just accepting the fact that not right now alleviates you of that burden.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (06:45.138)
Make it go away.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (07:10.216)
And it makes you stop. you, one of the things I think is really big in having a business is trusting yourself. Every time you say you’re going to do something and you don’t do it, you’ve lied to yourself. Don’t wonder we don’t trust ourselves, right? Like, so like, you’re not going to do it. Take it off your list. If you really want it, then, then how do you minimize risk and how do you maximize opportunity and you go for it? And I, went to a school when I was a kid and like we all did, sorry, that’s, that’s really big.
Misty Kortes (07:22.584)
That’s it.
Misty Kortes (07:39.564)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (07:39.976)
When I was a kid, I went to school and the school had a motto and the joke in my family is either we found me the right school or I took the motto too much to heart. And it was Latin for I’ll find a way or make one. You know, say no to me, watch.
Misty Kortes (07:51.916)
Yep, I like that.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (07:57.616)
In fact, say no to me, because then I will get off my butt and prove it.
Misty Kortes (08:02.092)
Yes. Yeah, there’s something about a fire that gets lit, right? When someone says you can’t do something, you could sit on something for months, maybe even years, but the second that someone says, I don’t think you can do it, you’re like, watch. Yeah, I don’t know where that comes from, but it’s a great motivator.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (08:14.982)
Yeah, just watch. That’ll be fun.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (08:21.914)
And then, you know, on the flip side, there was some article years ago, and it was, and I really loved this, that the worst job is one that pays you really well that you hate.
Misty Kortes (08:33.006)
Mm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (08:35.432)
or that makes you mildly miserable because you will stay out of fear that you can’t replace the income and you will spend all of your waking hours doing something you don’t care about.
Misty Kortes (08:38.797)
Right.
Misty Kortes (08:48.141)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (08:50.248)
And that’s when you quit. That to me, that’s the marker is I don’t care about this, but I got to do it for the job. If that’s the conversation in your head, even if you do something on the side just for joy, because that’s really where my business started was like, I miss teaching. I miss being in front of the room. I’m not going to get to do that in this job. I can stay in this job if I find that somewhere else. You got to not be miserable all day. Life is too, it’s the other side of too short. Like you just can’t.
Misty Kortes (09:05.484)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (09:20.37)
Well, you can and plenty of people do, but they don’t hire us and they aren’t very happy people. know, this being willing to be mildly miserable forever has got to go.
Misty Kortes (09:34.862)
Absolutely. Absolutely. So what do you think is the biggest thing that holds us back from making the changes?
Misty Kortes (09:52.098)
that we know we need to make, that we want to make.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (09:56.169)
I think there’s a lot of them and I think the…
The social world we live in tells us that we hate change. I was thinking about this when I was writing my blog last week. There is not anybody over five years old on this planet that hasn’t done change.
Misty Kortes (10:12.013)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (10:13.82)
We learned how to work differently because of COVID. We learned how to do things socially differently because of COVID. And while we did it kicking and screaming, those of us who were five or older on the planet did it. We have proof we know how to do it. We have proof that we can survive it. But the world keeps telling us we don’t know how to do it and it’s really hard and we’re gonna hate it and maybe.
and maybe we’ll like some things. mean, if somebody had told me the extrovert who’d gotten on a plane every three weeks at least that I wouldn’t hate being at home without traveling, let’s be clear, I didn’t say I loved it. I said I didn’t hate it. But if you had asked me at the beginning, I would have told you I’m gonna curl up under my bed and die because I’m an extrovert and I don’t live with anybody and it’s gonna be awful and no.
Misty Kortes (10:56.078)
Right?
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (11:07.528)
you know, wrote a lot and I painted a lot and I cooked a lot and I got better at creative things and funny how much social you can do on a screen. And that wasn’t normal. And I’m a small person. I’m used to having to be big on stage. Guess what? If I do what I would do on a stage, you don’t know what I’m doing with my hands right now. I had to learn to do it on screen. That if I wanted to use my hands in a conversation, they can’t go past my shoulders. Like I had to, like,
Misty Kortes (11:29.388)
Right.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (11:36.454)
sounds stupid, but I had to actually learn to do it this way. So, you know, I think this fear of change is told to us. mean, some of it’s real, but some of it’s told us.
Misty Kortes (11:47.534)
Well, I think we’re the biggest ones that tell ourselves. I know for myself.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (11:50.152)
Well, yeah, but where did we get that from? We get it from society. So Moana is one of my favorite movies, right? The, can’t, because somebody said we can’t and we believe it. We don’t know. It doesn’t mean we can. It just means we don’t actually know. So I think.
Misty Kortes (12:09.398)
And it was, it’s interesting because the, can’t, I was thinking about this. I went to go get a coffee this morning and I was driving back and I was thinking about our conversation and what we were going to be talking about. And I was thinking how many people say I can’t, I’ve said it myself, right? But it’s, is it that you can’t? Right? I mean, really think about that. I can’t, is it you, you physically can’t, you, you, you emotionally can’t, you, you like most things.
That actually is not true. That’s a lie. Most things. Now there are physical things like, can I pick up a car by myself? No, that is an I can’t. But for most things we were like, I can’t go to the gym. Really? You can’t go to the gym or you don’t want to go to the gym? Which is it? You know what I mean? It’s those little things that we lie to ourselves that just chips away at our confidence because
we’re constantly not fulfilling what we said we would do, right? So that’s a big one.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (13:18.93)
We say I can’t because I mean, I don’t know how.
Misty Kortes (13:22.136)
Mmm, there you go. That’s a better way to put it!
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (13:23.208)
Right? We say, right? Or because I can’t go to the gym because I don’t want to embarrass myself on the equipment. I can’t go to the gym because I’d rather play with my kids. Okay. Then the answer isn’t that you can’t it’s you’d rather play with your kids. When I, know, my story as well. And I was daddy’s little girl and my mom was quite, quite a challenge. And, um,
Misty Kortes (13:42.21)
There we go.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (13:53.34)
but she did something to me when I was six that is all about this I can’t thing. I was trying to learn how to ride a bike and I had training wheels. And my six foot tall father would come out with me every evening to try to teach me to ride this bike and he’d bend over to hold the seat and screw up his back. I got an hour with dad every night.
And it was a day my mother had had it and she walked outside and she said, you’re not coming back in the house until you can ride the bike. And I don’t want to hear I can’t. You’re ruining your father’s back.
Misty Kortes (14:23.502)
Mmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (14:27.464)
All the things that are wrong with that are plenty, but I didn’t come home until I could ride the bike. And the I can’t is not language. I don’t want to, I don’t know how, you can’t make me, it’s stupid, I wanna do something else. But I can’t was just plain not allowed. And it’s kind of funny because I think she went through much of her life afraid and believing she couldn’t. But it was for me, and I don’t even know that she did this as much to my.
Misty Kortes (14:32.502)
One thing, yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (14:54.802)
brother, but between she and I, I can’t was not a sentence that you could say. And it has stuck. like, you know, and I’m not, I am not physically able today to go lift my weight. Nor do I ever expect or plan to even try to do that. So the answer is, and I can’t, the answer is I won’t. That’s okay, too.
Misty Kortes (14:59.096)
Yeah.
Misty Kortes (15:02.467)
Yeah.
Misty Kortes (15:16.511)
Ha ha!
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (15:22.204)
But I think we, even in your other question about what stops us, I think there’s fear of success. A lot of secondary gains in staying where we are, that’s what causes the inertia. So in a physical sense, it’s the drag of gravity, right? That stops machine things from moving. I think for us, it’s our friends might change. Our schedules will change. People might see us differently. Well, if I had money, what would I actually do with it?
Misty Kortes (15:27.808)
Mm, yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (15:52.146)
people will think I’m a different kind of person.
I’ll have to change how I think about myself.
And those things are not small. We like to write them off, but they’re not little. They are the things that really stop us. And for most of us, it’s all rooted in something when we were teeny. But.
Misty Kortes (16:16.568)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (16:20.574)
I kind of related to the equivalent of, know, when I lived in Michigan, you know, I don’t know, in the area that I was in, a small town, everybody knows, everybody, know, every road, you know, every back street, right? And I used to use the example, like, even though you know the road, right, is ahead of you, but you’re driving down the road, it’s dark out, there’s no streetlights, and you turn your headlights off, you know? It’s that unfamiliar territory that you’re…
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (16:33.928)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (16:49.624)
taking or even familiar territory, but without that light, without that next step. And that brings a lot of fear and anxiety for people is the fear of the unknown. So now we know, we recognize it. think we as humans can all recognize in ourselves that we…
We desire things, we desire change, we’re unhappy, and we recognize all that, but what are some steps that we can actually take to get ourselves past that point, that tipping point of, I’m feeling the fear, but I’m gonna do it anyways. How do we do that?
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (17:34.768)
I love that.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (17:38.632)
I said play and I said it in a tiny little voice because it’s not a natural way of being either. But if we treat it all as perfect and we have to get it all right, we will never do anything new.
Misty Kortes (17:40.077)
What is it?
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (17:54.952)
And so it has to be less precious. It has to be, as part of it, I think you have to want it more than you’re scared. So you don’t have to be 100 % in, you just have to be 51%, right? That you want it 51 % and you’re scared 49%. You don’t have to get all the way there.
And then I think it’s smallest next right action, which is my answer to a lot of things. It’s my answer to depression. What’s the smallest next right action? Okay, wash your cup from them. Go wash your cup out from breakfast. What’s the smallest next thing?
Misty Kortes (18:22.414)
Mm.
Misty Kortes (18:33.794)
I always call it the next most logical step. But yeah, same concept. Small is great.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (18:36.756)
And for me, like calling it small because it all feels big and it’s gonna overwhelm me and I’m not gonna be able to. And before you know it, you’re afraid of things that may never happen. If they do happen, they aren’t gonna happen for two years. And so you don’t do anything because, it’s like, and as I say this, you and I both know I have a book that’s not finished, but there are people who say they’re gonna write a book so they can do the writing. They never intend for anybody to read it.
Misty Kortes (19:05.463)
Mmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (19:07.954)
There’s some permission. There’s no real intent. And then I really do. And I leave in town after we meet today. So I can go stare at water and read what I’ve written and figure out what to do with it. But the next small step is like, well, why don’t you see what you have?
Misty Kortes (19:20.366)
The next small step,
Misty Kortes (19:28.108)
Yeah. I think we get too far ahead of ourselves. you know, thinking about the future and what could happen, for me personally, when it comes to overcome overcoming things or, or facing things that challenge me that I’m fearful of, I, I don’t know where I adopted this exercise. I don’t know if it was something, maybe a protection mechanism when I was a kid, but whenever I tried to do something hard or
or challenging, I sit down and I give myself 15 minutes to actually visualize how bad it really could get. And I don’t even know if this is healthy. So don’t take my advice. This is just how I overcome it. So I sit down and I close my eyes and I think about all the ugly things that could potentially happen. And I mean, I let my mind just go rampant for 15 minutes straight. And I allow myself to feel all the feelings.
about how I’d be embarrassed and how this person might say that and this person might think of this to me and people on social media. Whatever the ugliness is that I think could potentially happen if I do this action, if I take this move. And then I open my eyes and I realize I’m still alive, I’m still here, and it wasn’t actually as bad as I thought it was gonna be.
And so I don’t know, for some reason it gives me the courage to say, I think I could do this. I think I can tackle this. That’s my exercise. And again, I don’t know if that’s healthy, but.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (20:59.08)
I’m gonna go the bathroom.
it’s not, I’ve certainly asked people to do it. Like if people are stuck in fear, okay. What is it? What terrible thing’s going to happen? So far you have not killed anybody and you have, at least I am unaware of anybody I’ve coached who was in fact a murderer, right? Like you haven’t killed anyone, right? You haven’t killed anyone. You have survived a hundred percent of the worst days of your life. What’s going to happen? And for me, mostly I would say that
Misty Kortes (21:13.635)
Yeah.
Misty Kortes (21:18.587)
I’ve never gone down that path, nope.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (21:31.912)
The worst days of my life were between 13 and 18 and almost nothing I’ve done since then compares. Like really don’t know how I did those five years. And so, okay. I did that.
Misty Kortes (21:38.19)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (21:43.374)
That’s actually a really good point. you realize, yeah, when you realize like I’ve done hard stuff, it can give you the courage to do other hard things. That’s so good. I love that.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (21:53.478)
I keep a courage list. So on days I feel like I can’t do anything, I keep a list of all the things.
You know, I live in a very left brain type A world, go fix this problem. And as soon as you’re done with that one, you’re onto the next one. And so and then I feel like I didn’t do anything. And yet. Actually. There’s a pretty good list and some of its little stuff like calling my mother in the middle of a swim practice saying, I’m not swimming for this woman anymore, come get me. You know.
Misty Kortes (22:23.95)
Mm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (22:27.874)
divorce that I didn’t really want but I couldn’t figure out how to survive any other way.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (22:36.046)
taking on a member of Congress pretty directly, who I now have a great relationship with. actually the interesting thing is I’ve done that several times. And I would say the strongest relationships I have with major leaders have started because I didn’t like something. And I was willing to say, I don’t think so. But that’s scary to do, or at least it used to be.
It’s probably why I wasn’t scared in the conversation we were having earlier. was like, okay, I took on two governors and two members of Congress. I can probably handle a CEO. And that is literally what I said to myself about it was, you did those things, you’ll be okay here too.
Misty Kortes (23:09.576)
Right. Yeah.
Misty Kortes (23:17.858)
The pep talk, yeah, the pep talk’s a good thing.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (23:20.61)
Right? But it’s a list of all the times I started out as a courage list, but it’s really, all the times I took a stand for myself when I go back and look at it and people, not entirely, but most of it. So I mean, there’s some public policy things that I got to make happen. You know, there are things I did for somebody in my family that I got to make happen, but most of that, but not all of that was about courage. All the things that are really about
Misty Kortes (23:46.243)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (23:49.096)
Those are achievements and they’re cool things I got to do. But the ones that were about courage were almost always about taking a stand for myself or somebody else.
Misty Kortes (23:59.732)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (24:01.68)
And I think most of us have actually done that. And I’m lucky to live where I do and have access to some of the opportunities to do that in big ways. if you said no.
Or you said yes, more importantly, right? I know you don’t understand what I want to do for a living, mom, uncle, whoever I was talking to. I know you think that what I wanna do doesn’t exist. I got it. I still wanna do it.
And I have a career that was built on that sentence. Like, okay, if I fail, I’ll go get a job like you know.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (24:44.37)
But what if I succeed?
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (24:51.132)
And so it’s interesting to try to help other people because I don’t know how to be any other way anymore.
Misty Kortes (24:57.794)
Well, I think we gave him some really, I mean, some really good tips. Number one is take that next small step, right? Number two, visualize the worst case scenario. And these are things, these are just tools to empower you and equip you. If they don’t work for you, don’t use them. And then number, well, let me just, so small step, visualize the worst case scenario. And number three tip,
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (25:03.826)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (25:15.516)
I wanna add a 2A.
Misty Kortes (25:23.946)
is acknowledge the hard stuff you’ve already done in life. Like give yourself credit for the things that you’ve overcome that can help you build your courage. So, okay, so 1A, what do you have to that? 2A, 2A, okay.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (25:35.642)
It’s two way, right? Visualize the work and then not just visualize every single sense, the best outcome. You get where you wanted to go. What does it look like? What does it feel like? What does it sound like? What does it smell like? What does it feel like?
Misty Kortes (25:43.584)
Mmm, the best outcome,
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (25:56.104)
Because that’s what you’re going for. And you want to go for that. So you want to be able to recognize it.
Misty Kortes (26:05.506)
That was a debate I used to have years ago is are we motivated by pain or pleasure? I think that most of us are more motivated by pain. Yeah, I don’t know what the percentage is pleasure, but sitting down, if you’re the pleasure motivated person, you can sit down and visualize like my life, what is it going to feel like? What’s it going to look like? How am I, how am I going to feel?
I think the people who are motivated by pleasure are going to find that beneficial.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (26:37.928)
I’m gonna argue with you a little. I think the people who are motivated by pain are the ones who need to do it most. The people who are motivated by pleasure know what pleasure feels like. They know what that looks like. An awful lot of people who are motivated by pain have no idea.
Misty Kortes (26:45.226)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (26:54.21)
Interesting.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (26:55.56)
not depressed is not happy. Right? I am not depressed anymore. It does not mean I’m actually happy.
Misty Kortes (26:57.932)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (27:06.694)
They don’t chase pleasure. They don’t recognize pleasure. They don’t sit in pleasure for five minutes. It’s why I need to do the stupid courage list. And I call it, it’s dumb that I need to do it, but if I don’t do it, I won’t remember that I did those things. Our brains are wired to keep us alive. That usually means that they are Velcro for shit and Teflon for good stuff. And for those of us who struggle with whether pleasure is valuable, whether it’s…
Misty Kortes (27:11.118)
and
Misty Kortes (27:22.051)
Right.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (27:36.272)
important to be happy, you know, like, no, I’ve got important work to do. I mean, I still have to have this debate with myself sometimes.
I will tell you that two of the most important things that ever happened to me, would not have happened if they had been another bad thing. I thought bad things were normal and that’s what I got. I hadn’t been jerked alive by something wonderful. I had to stay miserable. It wouldn’t have gotten my attention. I’d have been dead.
Misty Kortes (27:53.678)
Mm.
Misty Kortes (27:58.402)
Right.
Misty Kortes (28:07.32)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (28:12.944)
and something caught my attention.
Misty Kortes (28:17.07)
Yeah. I used to do that when the kids were little, is, you know, when we were broke, you you can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. You know, you’re pulled in a million directions. You have all the burdens of life kind of culminated into one succinct like timeframe of, know, of raising kids and marriage and trying to balance all of that, right? And I…
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (28:17.896)
Misty Kortes (28:45.76)
I remember someone saying to introducing the concept of living life like you’re on vacation, right? And so that was always a goal of mine is I want to live life like I’m on vacation every day. Like that feeling that you have when you’re on vacation. So you talk about visualizing that pleasure and what it’s going to feel like. So what we would do is we would take like two or three day weekends with the kids, take them to
this is back when I was in Michigan, so we would take him to a water park or a theme park or whatever, and we would do what we could within our budget. But that feeling, I tried to really hone in on it and embrace it. This is what our life’s gonna be like one day all the time, every day, that feeling. So you’re right. I think you can be motivated by pleasure. So you just gotta find what works for you.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (29:39.252)
I think you kind of got to do both. And I’m not sure the pleasure piece is about motivation, but it is about belief. I think, you know, we like to say, you know, if you
Misty Kortes (29:41.454)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (29:52.912)
If you see it, you believe it. Actually, I think it’s backwards. I think you see what you believe. And if you believe it’s gonna go to shit, you’re gonna find all the ways it’s going to shit. If you believe you’re gonna overcome it, you see the stuff, but you also see the good stuff. And I think you and I and many people like us who had difficult periods of our lives, particularly as children, we don’t.
We seek safe, we don’t seek pleasure. Right, we seek safe. And some of the things we gotta do to really get pleasure or achieve what we’re on the planet for means you gotta leave safety a little. so safe is part of what keeps us back.
Misty Kortes (30:24.91)
Yeah.
Misty Kortes (30:42.99)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (30:44.742)
And so we’ve got to see the pleasure part or we like, if I’m only going to be more miserable and all that bad stuff is going to happen, why would I do it?
Misty Kortes (30:56.024)
Yeah, I think you brought up something really important though. Just like when you’re recognizing or journaling or acknowledging the hard stuff that you’ve done, I think we also need to do the same thing with the good stuff, right? Because as crappy of a childhood as I may have had, there was still good moments. You know what I mean? And so we can all tap into a good moment in our life, no matter how bad things look or are. There’s a good, there’s a,
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (31:17.288)
I’m gonna sing!
Misty Kortes (31:24.522)
a gleam of light there and just taking a moment to acknowledge that and recognize that. You know, a lot of people do gratitude journaling. That’s a, yeah, that’s huge. I’m off and on on that. I’ll get into my modes of doing it and then I kind of fall away from it.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (31:42.834)
So I’m a left brain Washingtonian, right? It’s a spreadsheet. Because if you give me a beautiful journal, I won’t want to make a mistake in it.
Misty Kortes (31:46.85)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (31:50.594)
No.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (31:52.338)
but I can type three things into a square. And it makes me do it. also, so things on my spreadsheet are gratitude, wins of the day, what did I let myself receive? Because I’m terrible at that too. Right, I like to give to other people, not argue with you when you try to do something nice for me, is something I’m still working on. And what makes me so.
Misty Kortes (31:55.01)
Right.
Misty Kortes (32:03.907)
Hmm.
Misty Kortes (32:16.024)
I had a friend that called me out on that. She’s like, you’re stealing my blessing. I’m like, oof. That, yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (32:21.766)
Yeah. Right. And what made me joyful because I didn’t value those things. And some days I have to like, crap. Well, it’s 11 o’clock. If nothing made you joyful, what are you going to do in the next hour?
Misty Kortes (32:33.858)
Yeah. I mean, it could be something as simple as when I went to go get my coffee this morning, someone held the door open for me. Like receiving that and acknowledging that, that people are good.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (32:44.444)
dancing for five minutes to some song, crying to a movie, eating cheese. mean, there are things that have made my gratitude list that are crazy, indoor plumbing, air conditioning, made it to midnight. I mean, some days, didn’t kill anyone, get my mouth shut. mean, right? It’s not all profound trips to a mountain top in Nepal, right?
Misty Kortes (32:49.878)
Yeah.
Misty Kortes (32:56.108)
Yeah, Woke up today. That’ll work.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (33:14.152)
But on those really shitty days, and Lord knows we all have and we pretend we don’t, but we do, get to look back and go, well, wait a minute. Or that project really sucked and I don’t understand why. wait a minute.
I got to do what?
Misty Kortes (33:32.45)
Yeah, I’ve learned a new skill. I’ve experienced new things. I overcame another obstacle. Absolutely.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (33:39.144)
Somebody actually bought my artwork?
Right? know, like whatever, whatever the thing I thought I couldn’t do is, and in some ways the blog is really humbling, right? I try to make myself right every week. I probably manage 40 some odd a year. I probably don’t get to 52. And some weeks I work really hard on it. In some weeks it really kind of just happens. And I’m the worst predictor on the planet of what people are going to like.
And some of that’s more about the subject line than the text. get all that, but I, it’s really interesting to me to see what people, what people reply to and what people I’m wrong. Most of the time, my job is to it out there and let, people respond. It’s not, it’s not predict their behavior.
Misty Kortes (34:25.166)
Right.
Yeah.
That’s a big one. Like I said, we get too far ahead of ourselves. We start predicting behaviors. We start predicting how we think people are going to react. then if we actually just do exactly what you said, take that one small step and you start to realize what you thought was going to happen isn’t actually true. Right? So just allow things to be.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (34:59.88)
So about 10 years ago, I ran for office. And if you don’t know what that really means for somebody who’s done it, it means you ask for stuff all day long. You ask for money, you ask for votes, you ask for people to do things for you that you don’t have time to do because you’re too busy asking for money and asking for votes and approving content. So somebody else went to the grocery store for you and somebody else put gas in your car and just…
Misty Kortes (35:08.398)
Mmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (35:25.64)
Practical stupid things that you have to ask for because there are only 24 hours in a day and you have 27 hours of things to do and at some point you have to sleep and and so you ask Constantly, and I’m telling you this story
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (35:44.218)
all you gotta do is ask. there’s a part of me that’s like, there are things that people did for me that I would never have asked of them. Were it not that situation, they would do anyway. It was a great lesson in learning to ask, but it was also like, are not great mind readers. They won’t do what you don’t ask them for. And I’ve sat with enough candidates, other than me, who don’t ask them for it. And so, know,
Misty Kortes (35:50.904)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (36:04.556)
Yeah. that’s a good one. They won’t do what you don’t ask them for. Hmm. That goes, that apply. I want to take a moment for that though.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (36:11.825)
There’s something going on in my life right now. crap, now I gotta go be good on it.
Misty Kortes (36:17.462)
Yeah, but let’s take a moment on that. Like they won’t do what you don’t ask them for. Like let’s take that and apply that to life. Like when you expect your significant other to just do the things you expect them or want them to do in your mind, but you haven’t actually verbally told them. My husband and I had this conversation the other day. He, he wanted the kids to do something. And I said, did you ask him? He’s like, no, they should just know. And I’m like, yeah, that’s not the way this works.
That’s not the way. And I know this because I have thought many things I wanted him to do that he didn’t do because I didn’t tell him I wanted them. So that is so powerful. You want to have great relationships with people. want to get your needs met. You have to tell people what you need. Like that is so good. I think we can breeze over that. So it’s really important to stop for a moment and point that out.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (37:06.427)
Yeah, yeah. I’ve worked with enough candidates over who I have to ask for money who say, you maybe write me a check? And they get a check for whatever the person they’re asking for thinks is a good number. And then I’ve sat with them when the reports come out and they’re like, so-and-so gave me $100, but they gave them $300? What? Well, how much did you ask for?
Misty Kortes (37:20.471)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (37:28.332)
Right. Yeah. had a conversation yesterday, a project that kind of came my way. And, you know, one of the questions in the sales process is what’s your budget? If I don’t ask that question, it’s a scary, it’s a scary question for people to ask when they’re, you know, in business is how much are you willing to invest in this project? right. And, and then wait for the answer.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (37:52.477)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (37:55.442)
It’s for some reason it creates a lot of anxiety but you’re right it’s so true it applies in so many areas of our lives all you have to do is ask and then once you ask now you know what you’re working with now you know what to expect now they know what to expect like it’s it’s so it’s a it’s a very powerful thing.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (38:10.373)
huh.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (38:14.982)
Yeah, and you stop the mind reading and you stop being unhappy that people didn’t guess what you wanted. And so you have to actually, and people will step up. you know, one of the things that happens, again, you don’t have any time. And so you…
Misty Kortes (38:25.314)
Yes.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (38:35.76)
I walked into my house one night after I did knocked on doors, right? So the things that you do are you make phone calls and you knock on doors. That’s all you get to do that everybody else does everything else. And I walk in my house at about 8.45, because 8.30 it’s too late to knock on anybody’s door. And you come home and I look around my house and there are people sitting on stairs making phone calls for me.
Misty Kortes (38:59.15)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (39:02.31)
Running for office is selling air. I’m going to do everything I can to do what I said I was going to do, but I have no control over whether I get to do that. And there’s like 30 people in my house working for free, doing things that most people hate to do.
Misty Kortes (39:10.231)
Right.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (39:21.0)
as I asked them to.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (39:25.288)
powerful lesson. And so if we’re thinking about people wanting to start businesses, wanting a new life, to kind of bring it back to the core of what we were talking about, that’s the information interview you ask for. Almost anybody will meet with you for half an hour to talk about themselves. Period. And you don’t have to ask them for anything. Ask them who else you should talk to. They may or may not have the next position you want. They may or may not be able to help your business. Ask them what else.
Misty Kortes (39:35.287)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (39:52.872)
Who else should you talk to? What else should you ask that you didn’t? And right, people will do that. People will clear the way for you for a while. The mechanic that’s your friend will fix your car. I can’t tell you what the things in your life are, but you have people in your life who can do things you need done that you’re worried you won’t be able to afford or you won’t have time for. And will you get everything you ask for? No, you probably only get about 25 % of what you ask for.
Misty Kortes (40:03.01)
Yes.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (40:22.6)
But you get 100 % of the things you don’t ask. You get 0 % of the things you don’t ask for.
Misty Kortes (40:26.892)
Zero percent. Yeah, absolutely. It’s so true.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (40:29.712)
And so like, and, know, I, like, I had to learn to, I, I, it is still not easy. I still practice. So I mess with the menu. Can I have that sauce instead? Can I have this side instead? Can I get an upgrade of my room? Cause I travel a lot. Can I, I do it practice. Like I don’t care about the answer. I care that I just asked and you’d be surprised how often you get what you asked.
Misty Kortes (40:41.902)
Mmm.
Misty Kortes (40:50.038)
I just did that in Vegas. met. Absolutely.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (40:59.812)
If room is, the nicer room is sitting empty, they might as well give it to you.
Misty Kortes (41:03.436)
Yep. We were checking in. My husband’s cousin was turning 40, so we were meeting him in Vegas to have a little weekend getaway. We’re checking in and we had a great guy checking us in. was super, he was just really helpful and positive and upbeat. And it was like one o’clock in the morning, because we all arrived really late. And I said, hey, he’s turning 40. You think you could, like, could he get an upgraded room? He’s like, yeah, I could do that. I was like.
And they were like, I can’t believe you even asked. I’m like, all you gotta do is ask. can say yes or they can say no. I mean, it’s that simple. Don’t get attached to the outcome. Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (41:37.704)
And if I’m asking for crazy, if I’m asking for crazy, sometimes I literally say, so I understand that we don’t live in my utopia, but if we did, this is what we could make happen. I almost like I to stop couching it because I almost always get it even if it does sound crazy.
Misty Kortes (41:46.358)
Right? Yeah. Don’t get attached to the outcome.
Misty Kortes (41:54.188)
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so we got to wrap this up. So let’s give them the listener, right? They’re listening to this because they do want to reinvent their life. They want something that they want to change in their life today. Otherwise they wouldn’t be listening to this. So give them a quick two, three minute coaching session. They know they want to change. They know they need to change. What would you tell them to do if you were coaching them one-on-one right now?
two, three minutes. I know. No pressure.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (42:26.328)
like, but I don’t know who they are and you do that. you know, really like, okay. So if this were to happen, what would change for you?
Misty Kortes (42:36.942)
Mmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (42:38.92)
would change. How much do you want that?
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (42:45.276)
What’s the first thing you could do?
I do a weekend retreat where part of what we do is a strategic plan for your life that really starts with what’s the big dream and big plan and then 30 day plan complete with give me postcards to mail you to congratulate you for succeeding at that thing. Right? Like what’s the what’s the big plan and what’s what what can you do in the next 30 days to move to it? Because you will find what you were looking for. So if you are looking for reasons not to, you’re going to find them.
change that behavior, start looking for what would support you. And then who’s on your team? Which we didn’t really talk about. Talked about asking for stuff. You also all know who the person is who will always say no because they’re trying to protect you. They are not on your team for this.
Misty Kortes (43:40.162)
Yeah. That’s the reason to hire a coach. I mean, I’m going to just get on a soapbox for a moment because your coach is in your corner. They want you to succeed. When you succeed, they look good too. Like there’s a, it’s a win-win situation. Not everyone in your life is in that position. Right? Like if you win, they look bad. How much are they going to be in your corner?
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (44:05.608)
I don’t know that they look bad, but you make their life different and they didn’t sign up to change maybe. working for yourself, for example, often means not having the same regular hours you have always had.
Misty Kortes (44:13.611)
Exactly.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (44:23.772)
And at the beginning, probably means adding hours. That may not sit well with the people who are used to you picking them up at their ballgame, right? Or being responsible for all of the grocery shopping all of the time or whatever the things are, right? It’s disruptive to their life. So have some people in your corner who believe in you, whose only interest is your success. Because it is appropriate for the…
Misty Kortes (44:48.12)
There you go.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (44:53.352)
people whose lives you are disrupting by changing yours to not be so excited about it. But that shouldn’t stop you. Like you get one life. I mean, if I said nothing else in the last 45 minutes, you get, we might get more, but we are promised one. It should be one you love and are proud of, period. Not one you limped through because it was easier.
Misty Kortes (44:57.774)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (45:19.79)
Yeah, well, you settled for. Yeah, no, that’s very powerful. I think that’s a great place for us to end this conversation, because I know we could go on, continue, so much. Anytime I get a chance to talk to Julie, we have this banter back and forth of just such great conversations. So thank you so much for sharing today. I know that there are some people that are going to be listening in. I know you have a free gift.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (45:21.821)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (45:31.164)
Yep, we good.
Misty Kortes (45:48.814)
What do you have to share with them here today?
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (45:52.264)
So I think what we should do, I kind of want to do two, or I want you to take me seriously when I say this. We’re going to give you a link to a Managing To Do’s document.
Misty Kortes (46:04.119)
Okay.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (46:05.916)
to help you make some decisions about what stays and what goes, because I promise you most of it needs to go and how you can get it off your list. And then, if this feels useful and I am a connector, a lot of what I do is introduce chairs to tables. And I think Misty is brilliant and I’m incredibly grateful for a whole.
bunch of things because Misty pulls things out of me that I would not say if she did not ask the question. And then she turns it into amazing things that I like, wow, she got my voice right. And I could never have written that. But I think bottom line is time. And if you want some time with me, let’s hop on a 15 minute call. And who’s in your corner and who will give you at least a tip or two to move forward. And if there’s something we should do together, we will figure that out. But I actually.
Misty Kortes (46:43.374)
I’m
Misty Kortes (46:49.196)
Yes. If you want someone in your corner, Julie’s your girl.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (47:01.638)
love meeting people, I really do mean it. often, like the reason to say yes isn’t that you know you need X, Y, or Z for me. The odds are I know somebody who needs to talk to you. And so that’s, think, the reason to do it, but we’ll do both.
Misty Kortes (47:18.51)
Absolutely. So I’ll make sure that I link to both of those opportunities in the show notes. So make sure that you take advantage of that. And I’ll also make sure that I have all the socials, all the websites, any way that you can get connected with Julie. I’m going to have all of those, those links in the show notes. So Julie, thank you again so much for your time, for your expertise, for your insight. know, one thing, you know, being on this earth 50 years I’ve learned.
because in my 20s, I didn’t believe this. I thought there was one path to get to the goal. There’s many ways to do it. And I’ve accepted that in my maturity. And you’ve just opened up some other paths and ways to overcome to help you reinvent your life. So thank you for that.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (48:07.912)
You’re very welcome. you know, it’s funny, if you go look at my LinkedIn, it looks like there’s a path. There was never a path. There really wasn’t. I was really clear about what I wanted my life to be like at certain points. And I made decisions based on that. And I turned some things down that people thought I was crazy to turn down and said yes to things that people thought were nuts.
Misty Kortes (48:13.218)
Mm-hmm.
Misty Kortes (48:29.4)
just running for office alone. I think most of us are like, I never would think of that.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (48:30.038)
Good news.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (48:33.736)
I did well, but didn’t win. I ended up getting clients out of it, but I changed. I think I always looked confident. I wasn’t standing on somebody’s doorstep. They ask you a question, whatever it comes, it’s coming out of your mouth. You’re going to be held to you learn to get confident. It was some of the best best training for all kinds of things ever. I highly recommend it. Plus your community probably needs you. And even if you don’t win, you make
Misty Kortes (48:53.677)
Yeah.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (49:02.822)
You create dialogue that’s really important. but you know, I think for all the things that are challenging right now, and there are plenty of them, we don’t live in the world of our grandparents where you grow up, you pick a human to spend the rest of your life with, and you pick a job that you do for the rest of your life. That’s not the world we’re in. Thank God, cause I wouldn’t have fit. Right. And.
Misty Kortes (49:17.518)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (49:33.018)
So the bad news is nobody’s going to create the path for you. The company is not going to do it for you. You get to do whatever you want. And I realize that sounds privileged.
Misty Kortes (49:49.4)
Well, we’re all privileged in that ability to be able to choose.
Julie Nathanson Jakopic (49:49.832)
don’t mean it that way. Right? At the end of the day, you do have choices and they aren’t all perfect, but they can slowly move you in the direction of where you want to be.
Misty Kortes (50:02.786)
Yep. Absolutely. All right. Thank you so much again. I appreciate you and to anyone listening in, thank you for taking the time to hang with us today and tuning in. And so with that, I will see you all again next week. Actually, I’m taking this next week off. I’m going on vacation, but I’ll see you again in two weeks. Have a great day. Bye.